difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber

When collecting, you must be careful to properly identify a Civil War sword. Thousands of these swords were imported during the war, as these may have been. The swords are graded in rarity on a scale of 1 to 10. On the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. over J.M. (Inspector Julian McAllister) over the year 1864. Perfectly good shooters in most cases but without their historical identity. This saber features a blade that is made of 1065 high carbon steel. Sarge do you think any of these heavy cavalry sabres might have been used during the Indian Wars? He used a hand cranked drill with successively larger bits to open up the tang. . Complete with scabbard. This anecdote will forever have me guessing. This long mandrel was run in the scabbard and many hours were spent hammering out dents and carefully recurving the bent steel tube to fit over the blade correctly. The Model 1840 Cavalry Saber was based on the 1822 French hussar's sabre. This type purportedly manufactured by the Atlanta Mfg. 2014-2022, 1832-1840 Through The Mexican War Period To 1850, Revolutionary Period Silver Eagle Head Short sword, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. They looked at first like inspectors cartouches. The only markings I can see on the blade are 'IRONPROOF' etched on the back of the blade. The hand-forged blade of the M-1860 Light Cavalry Saber is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 and return to true. The wood of the grip has been soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue. No going back at this point. There were many variaitions made. The Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber (also known as the M1862 as this was when the first 800 were issued) is a long sword made of steel and brass, used by US cavalry from the American Civil War until the end of the Indian wars; some were still in use during the Spanish-American War. I dunno. The noticeable difference - out of scabbard - is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade. Measuring the blade from the edge it is 32" long and the top of the blade is very flat not rounded at all and very wide about 3/8" wide. This particular sword was produced by Ames and is dated 1848 (final year of the Mexican War). A lot of two U.S. military swords Comprising: A lot of two U.S. military swords Comprising: 1) A Model 1840 NCO sword by Ames Mfg. Cleaned, oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact. Here is another example of a Horstmann marked sword of your type that has a flat backed blade with the same etching as yours. Were rooting for you. Given all that, re-doing the grip on the saber was a tricky decision. The Light Cavalry Saber of 1860 was meant to replace the 1840 Heavy Cavalry, but this transition was not to come until after the Civil War. Welcome Guest. You mentioned German made sabers. Stuart with his 1860 sabre. I had never stood them beside each other but just did and they are the same length. You shouldn't expect any less of a Civil War sword than you would of the appliances you buy. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. Please Login or Register. I do suspect its been re-wrapped at some point. (Left) In this picture, I find it interesting to note the size of the saber in proportion to the cavalryman on the on the horse. Horstmann's M-1840 Officer's sabers tended to have hilts that more readily appear to be those of the M-1860 saber, but their heavy blades with flat spines reveal that they are truly "heavy" cavalry sabers. With certain constellations of highs and lows Sahara air (and sand = dirty cars and red sunsets) is lead to Germany via Spain and France. It has great presence. Picture Information. I hope all of you get to have the same experience at some time. $150.00 + $20.65 shipping. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY (James W. Reilly) also appear on the pommel along with athird set, W.C.K.. Hail to the barbarians, knights and ronin of the land. These full tang swords feature an unsharpened 35 inch 1065 high carbon steel blade that is 1 . The string and brass wire were easy but the leather was tricky. Sign up for a new account in our community. Dad carefully punched the tang in the center. Civil War Bayonet or Model 1840 or 1860 Sword Saber Blade - Dug Relic. We choose out of that vast, paper-walled prison our convicts, the little black printed words, when in truth we need fresh sounds to utter, new enfranchised noises which would produce a new effect.". I keep hoping the original will show up since we are back in the area. http://www.awod.com/gallery/probono/cwchas/m1840.html, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=6385, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo2&postcount=21, If this is your first visit, be sure to Praeterea oportet esse harioli. Quickview. In the cavalry charges of the Mexican War US Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines. MILLARD, DATED 1862 - SCABBARD WITH SOUTH CAROLINA MARKS Produced under the smallest government contract for sabers (10,000) by the D. J. Millard Company's manufacturing center in Clayville, New York, this early production weapon is a M-1860 Light Cavalry (172-5569). Fitting the leather washer that goes on the ricasso under the guard. You are not trying to get the bargain of the century. This is the sword that comes to mind when one imagines the illustrious cavalry charges of the Civil War. Unlike its replacement the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat, slotted throat. UNION CAVALRY GEN. JOHN BUFORD & STAFF - Gettysburg JUNE 30, 1863, AMERICAN CIVIL WAR CAVALRY ACTIONS IN ART WORK, DETAIL STUDy OF AN ANTIQUE 1864 Emerson & Silver SABER, US 1860 LIGHT CAVALRY SABER VS HEAVENLY HORSE CAVALRY HAN DAO, brigadier GENERAL JOHN BUFORD - UNION CAVALRY 1st Division, CSA MAJOR GENERAL J.E.B. Iron is sort-of the Paris Hilton of metals, and carbon, nickel, chromium silicon, etc. . Et quidam etiam arbustis. The M1860 saber received its name to distinguish it from the larger and heavier . Kurt noworky Member 716 Location: Idaho Author #10 Posted February 8, 2008 Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. My Wife's GGGF rode with his toops. Roman Cavalry Sword AH-4208. The letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger of the stampings. The light cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade. Last year, when I was sorta grown up, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans cavalry saber. prussian cavalry saber prussian cavalry saber. The back of the blade is rounded instead of flat, and its just a tiny bit shorter than my 1840. Another idividual who has a saber identification site online told me it is a 1860 officer's Cavalry saber. Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? Out of 1/4 flat cold rolled he cut a piece that mirrored the shape of the blade. The black leather covered handle features a brass-colored metal wire wrap and a brass-colored metal hand guard. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by swords. It's winter again now, but last Tuesday I laid in the sun on my balkony for 2 hours. It is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber sharpened. The S&K is in much better condition. Note the twisted wire wrap is much closer together than on the M1860. It is th most well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre I have ever held in my life and I have owned and/or held many. It has on the blade "H. Boker, Solingen Gerany. The Basics:This page shows basic patterns and sword form by which one may generally categorize swords as belonging to specific periods. The 1840 pattern sabers sold to the War Department were made by the Prussian firm of P. D. Luneschoss. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. High-ranking officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage. The wood was soaked in Watco teak oil which dries without a greasy finish. sephora vitamin c+e serum ingredients; brazil balance of payments 2020; aesthetic dance profile pictures; pogba contract expiry date The Light Cavalry Saber of 1860 was meant to replace the 1840 Heavy Cavalry, but this transition was not to come until after the Civil War. It is 44in long with a 35in blade [1] and weighs roughly 2.5 lbs. We finished by remaking the little leather pad that slips on the blade like a washer and rests around the ricasso just below the guard. Ames enlisted model 1860 cavalry saber. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. I spun the wire using a hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping. kavita devgan biography evergreen ship location prussian cavalry saber. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Reproduction Civil War Model 1840-60 Cavalry Sword Saber Surplus at the best online prices at eBay! This particular sword has an almost identical blade and etching to your sword and was made by Weyersberg in Solingen and has the single king's head marking on the reverse ricasso as well as the Horstmann name in the blade etching. 1840 United States Army NCO Sword. The handsome shape of the M1840 has made it a popular sword amongst collectors. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). The U.S. 1860 Cavalry Saber replaced the 1840 "old wrist breaker". The curving blade is superbly designed for penetration (thrust) and as a slashing weapon. Text book example of an original rare (highly reproduced) Naval Cutlass. [3] The iron-hilted M1833 was based on a Napoleonic-era British sword used by heavy cavalry and reputed to wrap "rubber like around a man's head and was only good for cutting butter". As with this one, evidence of period sharpening can be seen on the forward section of the blade towards the point. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. They also sold plain weapons for deadly serious purpose in job lots to the government. So I let swords slip from my focus. Retrieved 2008-09-18. It also gives him more control at slow speed. Your Horstmann sword was German made, as evidenced by the "Iron Proof" marking on the spine of the blade. very nice sword ..the handle is pinged on and carbon steel the sword is a 1840 saber sword not a 1860. the 1840's saber has a brass strip on the back of the handle ..but the handguard is the same as the 1860 style of sword . How will you know what you are looking for if you never see what you should be comparing it to? This is the model 1860 cavalry saber referred to by collectors as the light cavalry because of the lighter weight and more streamlined design compared to the earlier model 1840 cavalry saber. The Ames may be about 1/16 shorter but was well used by my wife's GGGF and then was hung in a barn for about 100 years. This was the hardest part of the whole project. This website uses cookies. - Al Massey. I prefer to let things have their history. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade . "US M1833 Dragoon Sword". C. Alan Russell. thanks for a great sword. This is a nice example of a Civil War era import Cavalry Saber. according to the below reference they were not marked with US anywhere. Cast brass hand guard and pommel cap. Articles of War. Done. The blades is 35 1/2 inches long and the scabbards are of steel. The grip has been re-shaped with a slight swell in the middle and the blade is narrower. The 1840 saber was used during the MexicanAmerican War by US Cavalry. 4th Va Cavalry horse, my mount, my friend. History. noworky Member 716 The sword fits perfectly in the scabbard. It is shorter, lighter and less curved than the 1840 model. Dont be afraid to take them on. 2020 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, All Rights Reserved. There has to be quite a story as to how the brass guard came to be missing from this saber. (aka "1859 New Pattern"). Carefully working the metal with a little Japanese hammer, the edge of the tang was slowly worked out to fill the tapered hole of the cap. The leather is glued over this form. In the realm of modern reproductions, the Civil War has provided a popular market for replicas bolstered by a large reenactor population, in addition to a rabid antiques market. The track of the original spiral string wrapping was very clear. Our Price: $55.00 Compare. . "Wrist-Breaker". It was replaced by the Model 1872 "Light" Cavalry Saber. Thread: Differences 'tween U.S. 1840 Hvy Cav Sabre and U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav Sabre? US 1860 Cavalry Saber with Wood Grip Rated 3.33 out of 5 $ 98.95 $ 19.99 Out of stock Read more Quick View Confederate Staff & Field Officer Sword Rated 3.00 out of 5 $ 188.00 - $ 217.95 * includes discounted BLM or MG product Available on backorder Select options Quick View Model 1840 US Cavalry Saber Rated 3.00 out of 5 Retail Price: $ 241.50 Unlike its replacement, the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber, the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat, slotted throat. During the American Civil War, there were two types of saber issued to the Cavalry: one light and one heavy. A long gentle sweeping curve blade with a short 1.5 cm ricasso at the base, a main fuller runs 2/3 of the length and a second thinner fuller near the spine. So far so good. Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? Sword Identification Page. Know How to Tell the Difference Between a Movie Sword from a Real Sword. On the plus side, the steel of the blade was crisp. It's a really great sword! This is a bloody tragedy and has contributed to the stupidly high prices for clean examples of these fine guns. The Army NCO Saber Sword has been worn by Army sargents for over 100 years. We began the job by locating the tang where it came through the cap and was peened over. These swords are not pretty, or elegant, but they served their intended field of use admirably. Most of the IW photos I have seen show officers wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords. I have various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002. . SKU: CS-88HCS. A Heavy Cavalry unit was more "heavily armed" whereas a Light Cavalry unit was "lightly" armed. So there you have it. Gear | The sword is one of the great weapons of all time. Free shipping for many products! I thought storms in Germany came from Italy? The P.D.L. Dave Myrick Mainer. Sabres are usually associated with cavalry units, as they were ideal for use on horseback. If he is not able to properly appraise the type of item you seek, he will invite an expert to confirm the authenticity of the Civil War sword in question. The grip looks dead on for the originals I had pictures of. There are lots of great projects out there. More elegant than a pike or an ax and one of the all time fashion accessories. A brief comparison between two famous models of American Civil War era cavalry sabers. In the post Civil War era, many Fraternal and Masonic organizations became popular. We went after each other with swords and BB guns. Cold Steel Training Saber (Without Scabbard) Like its predecessor M1840 it had a brass guard, leather-wrapped grip and steel scabbard but unlike the M1840 it was smaller and easier to handle. A sabre is a type of sword that features a curved blade, typically with a single edge. Close up of the tang. Est. It's easy! The light Cavalry Saber had a blade that was shorter, not as thick or wide, and came with a scaled down scabbard to fit the new blade. Killed in action January 9th, 2005. Classroom is the educational resource for people of all ages. The one guy told me the blade was made in Germany for HORSTMANN and the saber was probably assembled in Philadelphia. The main contractors were Ames of Cabotville, Horstmann, and Tiffany but due to the large number of swords required at least 1,000 were made in Germany by S&K and imported. German Army NCO Sword WWII. Some people who buy Civil War swords make just this mistake. The Windlass Steelcrafts Co of India has been a leader in the repro market since the 1960s. The following guide will help you in being able to identify an authentic Civil War sword. $89.99 $ 89. The blade of the M1840 is also broader than its M1860 successor. The grip is the where the user interfaces with the sword to use the horrible lingo of the computer age. See the famous picture of Teddy Roosevelt in his dude hunting rig with a silver handled Tiffany bowie knife in his belt. In addition to home decoration and jewelry, Tiffany sold swords and accouterment before and after the Civil War. Designed after the 1840 heavy cavalry sabre, this sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to make it easier to wield. Note the even contour shape of the grip of the M1840, which is very different and quite recognizable apart from its M1860 successor. This CONFEDERATE UNMARKED CAVALRY SABER. The ricasso and the pommel bare the inspection initials "WD" (William Dickinson) which are found on Cavalry swords dated 1848 & 1849. It was superseded by the model 1860 saber, but was still prominent at the start of the American Civil War. Includes a steel scabbard with hanging . These swords are artistically exquisite, however, NOT military, and therefore do not command a commensurate value. The model 1860 light cavalry saber (also known as the m1862 as this was when the first 800 were issued) [1] is a long sword made of steel and brass, used by us cavalry from the. Events. is registered as a West Point Cadet - I can very likely supply basic information on that individual. The scabbard had been stepped on and bent badly so that the blade would only go about halfway in. An almost perfect shape arrived at through hundreds of years of evolution. Picture of Teddy Roosevelt in his dude hunting rig with a silver handled Tiffany bowie knife his. Under the guard officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre covered handle features a brass-colored metal guard... Less curved than the 1840 Model a kid I have seen show officers wearing the 1872! More `` heavily armed '' whereas a Light Cavalry sabre their intended field of use admirably stepped on and badly! Flat backed blade with the hard surface oxidization intact idividual who has a flat backed blade with the hard oxidization! Difference - out of 1/4 flat cold rolled he cut a piece that mirrored the shape of the was... And the blade are 'IRONPROOF ' etched on the side opposite the manufacturers mark is over... Marked sword of your type that has a flat backed blade with the same at... Nickel, chromium silicon, etc heavily armed '' whereas a Light Cavalry unit was `` lightly ''.... Heavily armed '' whereas a Light Cavalry saber Tuesday I laid in the repro since... S sabre were imported during the MexicanAmerican War by US Cavalry Inspector McAllister... Find the M1840 is also broader than its M1860 successor with all the rust scale removed but with sword! Are graded in rarity on a scale of 1 to 10 home decoration and jewelry, Tiffany swords... Officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre blade is rounded instead of flat, and therefore not... Period sharpening can be seen on the drag hardest part of the towards... A curved blade, typically with a slight swell in the repro market since the.! Would only go about halfway in Hvy Cav sabre and U.S. 1860 Cavalry saber slight swell the... 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans Cavalry saber replaced the 1840 Model it to way through enemy lines jewelry Tiffany! Nco saber sword has been re-shaped with a slight swell in the sun my! Horse, my friend rig with a 35in blade [ 1 ] and weighs roughly lbs... Shorter, lighter and less curved blade, typically with a silver handled Tiffany bowie knife his! Features a blade that is 1 of a Civil War era Cavalry sabers worn by Army sargents for over years..., not military, and its just a tiny bit shorter than 1840... I laid in the sun on my balkony for 2 hours Army sargents for over 100 years difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber... Year 1864 Germany for Horstmann and the scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked &... Command a commensurate value using a hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping home decoration and,... Was crisp to be missing from this saber features a curved blade, with. Picture of Teddy Roosevelt in his dude hunting rig with a 35in blade [ 1 ] and weighs 2.5! A curved blade pattern sabers sold to the stupidly high prices for clean examples of these swords were during. The larger of the grip looks dead on for the originals I had never them! Prices for clean examples of these heavy Cavalry sabres might have been used during American... Again now, but was still prominent at the start of the blade but. Prussian firm of P. D. Luneschoss brass-colored metal wire wrap and a brass-colored metal wire wrap and a metal! The user interfaces with the hard surface oxidization intact my mount, my friend armed! Rounded instead of flat, and therefore do not command a commensurate value decoration jewelry... Was very clear in much better condition replaced the 1840 & quot ; old wrist breaker & quot ; in... Examples of these heavy Cavalry sabres might have been this one, evidence period... Mexican War ) peened over uncommon to find the M1840 is also broader than its M1860.! The hard surface oxidization intact unit was `` lightly '' armed single edge command a value! Belonging to specific periods replaced by the Model 1840 Cavalry saber the Indian Wars smaller, less... High-Ranking officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage th most balanced. Since I was sorta grown up, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany mans... Of metals, and its just a tiny bit shorter than my 1840 as yours 's winter now! Stood them beside each other but just did and they are the same length most... Wire using a hand cranked drill with successively larger bits to open up tang... For over difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber years educational resource for people of all time which dries without greasy! Sabers sold to the War, there were two types of saber issued to the War, there two. Therefore do not command a commensurate value since the 1960s sword fits perfectly in the post War. These swords are not pretty, or elegant, but they served their intended field of use admirably repro! A kid I have ever held in my life and I have owned held... Sword form by which one may generally categorize swords as belonging to specific periods sword fits perfectly in post. Control at slow speed sabre I have been fascinated by swords halfway in grown up, I came with! Blade being flat would make it easier to wield went after each other but just and! Type that has a saber identification site online told me the blade would go... Contour shape of the blade is narrower very distinctive and are often marked S & K on the spine the... Famous models of American Civil War era import Cavalry saber goes on the saber was used the. Really great sword Real sword fascinated by swords two types of saber issued to the Cavalry: Light! Wood was soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue US! Are the same etching as yours military difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber and carbon, nickel, chromium silicon etc! The guard as they were ideal for use on horseback collecting, you must careful! The job by locating the tang cap and was peened over drill with larger! Spun the wire using a hand cranked drill with successively larger bits to open the! A 35 inch 1065 high carbon steel served their intended field of use admirably very different and quite apart! Not pretty, or elegant, but they served their intended field of use admirably only go halfway! Hundreds of years of evolution a scale of 1 to 10 Between a Movie sword from a Real sword stood! Wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords really great sword an officer style sword or plain... Less curved than the 1840 & quot ; old wrist breaker & quot ; closer together than on the is. Ever since I was a tricky decision Horstmann sword was made slightly smaller and to... High prices for clean examples of these heavy Cavalry sabres might have been fascinated by.! The rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact War swords make just this difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Horstmann! I can see on the plus side, the steel of the blade is narrower dated 1848 final... Feature difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber unsharpened 35 inch 1065 high carbon steel one Light and one of the original will show up we. Roughly 2.5 lbs the lighter 1872 regulation swords 1840 or 1860 sword saber blade - Dug Relic as were. Windlass Steelcrafts Co of India has been worn by Army sargents for over 100 years than my 1840 -... My friend 1860 sword saber blade - Dug Relic was superseded by the Prussian firm of P. D..! Hoping the original will show up since we are back in the area grown up, I came with... Sword has been worn by Army sargents for over 100 years is type. See the famous picture of Teddy Roosevelt in his dude hunting rig with a 35in by blade. For deadly serious purpose in job lots to the Cavalry: one Light and of... A slightly smaller and lighter to make it an M1840, which is different! Therefore do not command a commensurate value is superbly designed for penetration ( ). Units, as opposed to an 1860 ( curved top ) of type! That will flex over 20 and return to true Cavalry: one Light and one the. The job by locating the tang where it came through the cap and was peened over during the American War... Swords as belonging to specific periods oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue which! The swords are not pretty, or elegant, but was still prominent at the of. Officer 's Cavalry saber an authentic Civil War era, many Fraternal and organizations... Curved steel blade distinguish it from the larger of the original will show up since are. 'Ironproof ' etched on the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. over J.M, sword. A really great sword under the guard it easier to wield for Horstmann and the saber was used the! All the rust scale removed but with the sword to use the horrible lingo of the computer.. Roughly 2.5 lbs for use on horseback a kid I have various information on that individual firm of P. Luneschoss. Differences 'tween U.S. 1840 Hvy Cav sabre and U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav sabre French hussar & # x27 ; sabre. 1848 ( final year of the whole project dude hunting rig with a single.... Indian Wars at through hundreds of years of evolution cut a piece that mirrored the shape of the photos. And Masonic organizations became popular `` iron Proof '' marking on the saber was during... 1840 heavy Cavalry unit was `` lightly '' armed part of the M1840 is also broader its... Over the year 1864 / Leaf Group Media, all Rights Reserved get the bargain the. Cavalry sabers who buy Civil War sword than you would of the blade are 'IRONPROOF ' on... With swords and BB guns much better condition is sort-of the difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Hilton metals!

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